Archive for the ‘I’ll let you decide…’ Category

The following conversation actually happened on social media. It was the final part of a comment thread sparked by a third person posting a video in which a 12-year-old girl defends the pro-life position.

Some details have been changed to protect the guilty and remove some unrelated comments, although I suppose one might easily guess that ‘White Christian Male’ is yours truly. It happened some time ago, so it’s extremely unlikely it may ever be found by searching said social media site in any attempt to identify the other participants.

I openly admit that I am white, Christian and male, and that this may well (in fact probably does (in fact most certainly does)) shape my opinion and make me biased – but then who is not biased towards something?

I invite your comments –  not to add to the argument, nor to agree or disagree with me or my antagonist – but to suggest what may be helpful or unhelpful about either person’s approach; is there any hope that a White Christian Male and an angry Gender Studies Student might one day be able to talk, and even be friends?

(Anything in italics are comments added by me for clarification. Profanities have been converted to symbols)


Gender Studies Student I’ve said it a million times before and I’ll say it again – no uterus no opinion!

White Christian Male So are you saying men should have no say in this whole issue? Isn’t that gender discrimination?

Gender Studies Student Hahahahahahahaaahaha yeh, right. I am not even going to try to argue with you because you are so far brain-washed that nothing will get you out of that hole.

Men can have opinions but it is not their bodies therefore they have no say as to what goes on. (and they’re not children, they are fetuses or zygotes, ugh!)

Hahaha so child is consequence for sex. Hahahahah. She only blames the mother for sex – what about ~the father~ hahah f&#! She says the side effects of abortion [referring to the pro-life youtube video]- but she forgets to include the side effects of pregnancy:

[An 830 word long list of possible complications and side effects of pregnancy followed]

So in case that wasn’t clear: pregnancy is always life threatening and never merely an “inconvenience”.

White Christian Male Wow, that would have to be the longest ‘comment’ I have ever seen on a fb post. _______, you are obviously passionate about your position, and dare I say ‘brainwashed’ by the feminist and ‘pro-choice’ agenda, both relatively recent phenomena, as opposed to a worldview that had been held and tried and tested for at least 4 millenia by billions of people, and which – it may surprise you – provided the foundation for freedom of speech and the emancipation of women which enabled the pro-choice movement to happen. However the fundamental difference between us in this issue is how we view the unborn child. I say unequivocally that they are human beings, and science supports this conclusion.

The use of the words zygote and fetus has been employed to serve the abortion agenda; you might just as well say ‘you are not human, you are an adult’

I feel sad that you express such revulsion against one of the most magnificent and beautiful aspects of life on earth – reproduction.

Gender Studies Student hahahah yeah mate. sure. i could argue forever about this but seeing as I f&#!ing can’t stand religion or white dude bros who think they know more about women, their bodies and the feminist movement than women and a woman who is doing her honours in gender studies. The fundamental difference between your movement and the pro choice movement is that you force women to not be able to get abortions whereas the pro choice movement believes that there should be a choice.

Well I do love the starting process of reproduction (however nothing gets ‘reproduced’ :P) but I am probably hurting your Christian ears yes?

White Christian Male no. Not even my white dude bro ears. Sex is a great gift from God, and was intended for pleasure.

I am not aware of my movement ‘forcing’ women to not get abortions, any more than Christians ‘forced’ people to not have slaves in England in the 19th century…

Might I suggest that the feminist movement would be better advanced by reasonable, respectful discussion, rather than angry taunts and profanity? I don’t think many men will be won to the cause otherwise.

Gender Studies Student Please don’t tone police me – it doesn’t help your argument or hinder mine. Besides, there would be no change if the oppressed stayed polite and silent – they would simply be ignored. All progress has come from noise! Whether it be violence (revolution style) or protests. I will not pander to your feelings and I will not be polite when you, and people from your movement make misogynistic statements that aim to oppress women.

You don’t care about women or the feminist movement – you just want us to be silent.

White Christian Male Not my feelings. Hurt them all you want. Just suggesting a more civil discussion.

Who is ‘you’ – me, or men in general? If I wanted women to be silent, I would not be commenting on ________’s post, nor asking you to have a civl discussion with me.

Gender Studies Student You and other people that have the opinion of quietening women (or other oppressed groups) in order to continue their privilege.

White Christian Male I never said that women should be quieted. And what privilege?

Gender Studies Student
Male privilege – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org

Male privilege refers to the social theory which argues that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women. A man’s access to these benefits may also depend on other characteristics such as race, sexual orientation and social class…

(At this point the original poster interrupted as asked that the discussion be continued in a another more appropriate forum)

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‘The Universe doesn’t give a damn about what we like. The Universe is the way it is, whether we like it or not. That’s the one thing that I really hope people will understand… we should rejoice in this remarkable accident that led to our existence… You are more insignificant than you ever thought, and the future is miserable – and those two things should make you happy, not sad.’

Lawrence Krauss

‘What if in the beginning there was love. Father Son and Holy spirit, the ultimate community of truth, beauty and goodness, who out of the overflow of their life make a world – and yes it’s a world that’s full of all sorts of incredible physical forces and all sorts of incredible darkness and selfishness; and yet, shot through the whole thing is the self-giving love, the glory of the Lord? Doesn’t that make sense of what we think to be the most important realities in life?’

Glen Scrivener

Hear the full quotations here at The Evangelist’s Podcast

Hand_Of_God

I am not wedded to the old theistic God of mainstream Christianity. This is the God of hard theism. Vestiges of this God remain in the mainstream church, obstructing spiritual growth and enshrining institutional structures. The twenty-first century needs an alternative portrait of God. Therefore I am presenting the basis for a redescription of God, that is, an alternative way of thinking and feeling about God (a new theology). I am trying to find a way to redescribe God, which is not set in concrete by the ritual, polity and dogma of the Church or captive to the made-to-order spirituality of the contemporary world.

Steven Ogden, ‘I met God in Bermuda’, p. 17

‘What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God (theos) who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live yon all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God (theos), and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us…’

Paul of Tarsus, ‘I told you about God in Athens’, Acts 17

“I would imagine myself preaching in Africa and could picture stadiums filled with multitudes or see people healed and raised from the dead. It was like a sanctified day-dream.” Todd Bentley (disgraced ‘evangelist’ who left his wife and married his ministry intern)

“Some Christians are heroes in their daydreams only. The characteristic mark of such heroism is imagining ourselves as faithful on great and public occasions and in rarefied atmospheres when others will be impressed. In stark contrast, true faithfulness in Scripture is first exercised in small things and in private. If we fail there, any faithfulness we show in public will be hypocrisy, a performance for the crowd and not an expression of loyalty to our Lord.” Sinclair Ferguson