Posts Tagged ‘Christianity’

Resolve logoIntroduction

At Resolve 2016, Flinders Evangelical Students explored the issue of pluralism – an issue facing both our society and the church.

As part of this exploration, we invited Geoff Boyce, Coordinating Chaplain at Flinders University to speak in our ‘Respond’ section of the conference. Geoff has, over a period of years, developed an approach to chaplaincy that has sought to respond to the reality of pluralism, and the contemporary context on the university campus in which Christians can often be less represented that other faiths, due to both the increasing secularisation of Australia, and the increase of migrants and international students.

Our aim in having Geoff speak was to listen respectfully to someone with whom we do not agree theologically, but whose approach we want to understand, so that we may be more gracious and respectful in our response both to him and to those with similar views.

What can we affirm?

Hospitality

Geoff helpfully highlighted for us the significance of hospitality as a Biblical principle, exemplified by Jesus. God’s work through human history has been one of inviting, welcoming and drawing people to Himself. By contrast, much of human enterprise has been about exclusion – keeping our own patch safe, and keeping the ‘other’ at arm’s distance, being unwilling to learn about and from those who are different to us. Geoff and his team have developed (and designed) Oasis as a venue centred around hospitality, where people from many cultural and religious backgrounds may engage, form friendships, and learn from each other. For this we are grateful, especially in that this hospitality has been extended to us in our freedom to use Oasis for our gatherings.

Genuine enquiry

Geoff also highlighted the danger of looking at others and trying to understand them ‘through Christian spectacles’ – ie. with unrecognised assumptions that come from our Christian worldview which can prevent us from truly understanding a person. For example, the best way to learn about Islam is to speak to and get to know a Muslim, rather than to hear about them from another Christian. This may well lead to us to discover more about what we actually have in common as fellow human beings, and to help us better understand and respect our differences.

Authenticity

Geoff helpfully emphasised for us the importance of desiring authenticity for others; in other words, wanting – for their sake – that they be truly themselves, not the person we think they should be. This is God’s desire for all people – that they be the people He has created them to truly be, free from the burdens and stereotypes placed upon them by other people who are really trying to deal with their own insecurities by manipulating people to become more like themselves. This is the Biblical idea of ‘maturity’ – when someone is fully human, and thus fully alive.

Relationships

Geoff also called us to focus on relationships, pointing us to the fact that relationship is at the heart of the Kingdom of God. God desires a relationship with His people, and He so works that those in a relationship with Him express this in the way they relate to each other. It can be easy for us to allow the task or the method of our mission to get in the way of genuine, loving relationships both with fellow believers, and with those around us who aren’t Christians. The moment we lose sight of the call to love God and neighbour, we will treat people as targets to win, or commodities to exploit.

Where do we differ?

Our view of Scripture.

Geoff mentioned that ‘the Scriptures were written in the exile;’ and that it was only in this time when the Jews themselves were outcasts that ‘they figured it all out.’ This is a view of the Old Testament that has emerged out of the late 19th and early 20th century ‘higher criticism’ movement that began to question the church’s traditional understanding of the origin, authorship and interpretation of the Bible. Coming from a rationalistic worldview that emerged from the Enlightenment, scholars and theologians who follow this more liberal or ‘progressive’ approach tend to emphasise the human element of authorship of scripture over the divine. Rather than viewing the historical books of the Old Testament as actual and accurate history, they prefer to see in them a ‘mythical’ element – stories that were written at a much later date than their actual historical setting, with the intention of providing a basis for meaning, identity and purpose for the discouraged and oppressed Jews living in captivity in a foreign land.

From an Evangelical perspective, such a view of Scripture undermines their authority and veracity, as expressed in the ES statement of faith: ‘[We affirm] The divine inspiration, trustworthiness, and infallibility of Holy Scripture as originally given, its entire sufficiency for our knowledge of God, and its supreme authority in all matters of faith and conduct.’ The conservative view of the Old Testament books, held to by most Christians for most of history, is that they were written much earlier, either during or soon after the time of the events described, sometimes by eyewitnesses, and always by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:10-11, 2 Peter 1:21) to record an accurate account of events. These men, enabled by the Spirit, also spoke of things to come, primarily the sending of the Messiah. Thus, Jesus could say that the Scriptures spoke of him. (John 5:39). This view sees the Bible and its story as something overseen and coordinated by God, not ‘figured out’ by human beings. It is a story of God actually working throughout human history in historical acts of salvation to bring all things to the point of Him entering the world in the person of Jesus. The Christian faith is founded securely on historical events through which God has revealed Himself, not the more pop-culture idea that it is based, along with most other religions, on principles of conduct and ethical/moral behaviour.

While we can agree with Geoff’s point of hospitality being a key idea in the Bible, I would be unsure about a hermeneutic that seeks to ‘read the whole bible through the lens of hospitality.’ We can all be guilty at time of imposing on the Bible a particular framework, and us Evangelicals can be just as culpable of this as anyone. However I am not convinced that ‘hospitality’ is the one or primary framework or ‘lens’ through which we should read the Bible, such that we look for it in most if not all passages we read. Geoff pointed us to Jesus’ rejection at the synagogue in Nazareth in Luke 4:16-30 as an example of this ‘hospitality hermeneutic’. He suggested that hospitality was the key issue here: the fact that the two stories Jesus mentioned were of non-Jews being accepted and included by God (a Sidonian widow and a Syrian official), and this is what enraged the people and made them want to kill him. While I agree that the problem was, as Jesus says, ‘…no prophet is acceptable in his hometown (Luke 4:24), it was not the issue of the ethnic identity of the people in the stories that was taken issue with, but his accusation of the Nazarenes that they would not accept him unless he performed signs and wonders. This sets the scene for the ongoing issue Jesus faced with the Jews – that they demanded of him a sign – which comes to a head in Luke 11:29 when he says “This generation is an evil generation. It demands a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.”

These are not the only occasions when we see Jesus ‘picking a fight’ with people who do not accept him as the Messiah and Son of God; and in the Nazarene synagogue it is he who starts the conflict by speaking scathingly of those who were otherwise, ‘speaking well of him and marvelling at the gracious words that were coming from his mouth.’ (Luke 4:22). It is difficult to see how this, and many similar incidents, are an expression of hospitality, at least as described by Geoff.

Our view on the urgency of the Gospel

Geoff advocated strongly for an approach to those of other faiths which is only comfortable with another changing their view when it is entirely on their own terms and through their own initiative. He supports a model of ministry (specifically for chaplaincy) which is, ‘…no longer the ‘rescuing’, ‘telling’ salvation paradigm, but the hospitable, listening, empowering and long-term-committed mentoring (‘walking beside you’) paradigm, directed toward individual and corporate well being.’

Such an approach to institutional chaplaincy is understandable and expected, given the brief of a chaplain to work primarily for the well being of the organisation and the individuals within it. However it is a model that unfortunately discounts the fact that the Gospel is a message of salvation that is to be proclaimed, and must be received through repentance and faith. It is not merely a set of tools to be used in promoting individual and corporate wellbeing and harmony (although these are outcomes that should be expected as fruit of Christ at work in people through the Gospel.)

The ‘rescuing, telling salvation paradigm’ is unavoidable when we see the ministry of both Jesus and the Apostles in the New Testament. ‘Repent and believe the Gospel’ is the summary statement of Jesus’ preaching given in Mark 1:14, and must be held alongside his ‘hospitality’ statements (eg. ‘come to me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.’ (Matthew 11:28) is said in the immediate context of him just having pronounced woes upon towns that had rejected him!). Not simply a set of ideas and principles that can be explored and considered intellectually or emotionally, it is a message that carries with it a command to be obeyed:

‘The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.’ (Acts 17:30-31)

This command is given in light of the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, and the coming Day of Judgement, from which God wants people to be saved. If Jesus, as he claimed, is the only way to the Father (John 14:6), then we truly love people by pointing them to him, and calling them to put their faith exclusively in him.

Our view on ‘comparative religion’.

Geoff encouraged us to look at the things we have in common with those of other faiths. That will be the point at which hospitality will be able to happen, as we use these commonalities as our starting point in creating open, trusting friendships (see diagram).

He suggested that the key point of commonality between all religions is love: the Golden Rule:

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12).

This is a popular idea today, especially when people are trying to make sense of and find solutions to the problem of religiously motivated violence and abuse. It is suggested that if all religious people simply practiced this as the heart of their religion, there will be harmony.

While it is true that many (but not all) religions contain a principle that in some way resembles Jesus’ Golden Rule (See table below), there are some problems with such a claim.

Golden Rule

Firstly Jesus, echoing the Law given through Moses, stands apart from the other religions in the way he phrases the Rule. His is the only one that is together entirely unconditional (ie. not for spiritual merit, or in order to receive good in return), proactively loving (as opposed to simply avoiding doing harm to others), and non-exclusive (not just within one’s own community.)

Secondly, unlike some religions in which the central theme is the effort humans must make to be good, the Golden Rule is not the central theme of Christianity in that sense. Christianity is based around not what we do, but what God has done in Jesus Christ. Jesus came not to enforce the law, but to fulfil it. What we were and are unable to do (love God and neighbour perfectly), he has done on our behalf, hand in hand with taking at the cross the punishment we deserve for our blatant unwillingness to love. In Jesus Christ God has done for us what we should have done for Him, and because He has perfectly kept the Golden Rule, we may be reconciled to Him:

‘In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.’ (1 John 4:10-11)

Our call to love is the outflow from the centre of our faith, which is in the person and cross of Jesus.

Our view of the Kingdom of God

Geoff told us that the Kingdom of God is about relationships. While that is true in as much as all that the Triune God does is about relationships, the Kingdom language used in the Scriptures is not primarily about communicating the truth of relationship as much as the truth of God’s authority. Entering the Kingdom of God means coming into a place of submission and allegiance to the King – the cry of Christians is ‘Jesus is Lord!’ and the message conveyed by Jesus’ resurrection is that he now reigns at the Father’s right hand and has been appointed as the coming judge of all people.

That being so, how are we to recognise the Kingdom of God in action in this life? Primarily, it must be people who are both acknowledging the lordship of Jesus over their lives and the world, and who are living in such a way that their actions give glory to Him.

This must necessarily be more than people of any faith or creed showing friendship and hospitality to one another. While we can certainly acknowledge that Jesus as King rules over all people regardless of their awareness of him, we can only call something a true expression of his kingdom where people are doing what they do ‘in his name’.

Because all people are made in the image of God, friendship and hospitality will be given expression in some form no matter how ‘fallen’ we may be, as long as we are human. However, as long as we are seeking to live outside of the lordship of Christ, such actions will ultimately be another expression of our rebellion. Because our deeds can in no way change our status before God, ultimately ‘…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags.’ (Isaiah 64:6)

Geoff told us, in the context of speaking about inter-faith friendships, that ‘God is doing his thing – he doesn’t need the church.’ This is really a straw-man argument. I have rarely heard anyone say words to the effect that, ‘God does need the church.’ He is bigger than the church, and technically could accomplish all He wants to accomplish apart from the church – except for the fact that in His plan that the Church is actually central to all He wants to accomplish! His goal in all He is doing in this world is to prepare the Church to be a spotless bride who will be presented to his Son, Jesus. Because of this the church is described with such terms as, ‘God’s household,’ ’The pillar and foundation of the truth’ (Titus 3:15), ‘a kingdom, priests to his God and Father,’ (Revelation 1:6), ‘a chosen race… a holy nation.’ (1 Peter 2:9). It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the church (the people, not the institution) is the visible expression of the Kingdom of God, and the instrument God uses to bring people into the Kingdom though its proclamation of the ‘Gospel of the Kingdom’ (Matthew 24:14).

Conclusion

I want to reiterate our thankfulness to God for the opportunities we have to gather freely as God’s people at Flinders Uni, and the role that Oasis as a location and as a team has played in making this possible. This space is a privilege that very few groups like ours around Australia and the world have.

We also appreciate the friendship and hospitality extended to us by Oasis team volunteers, staff and chaplains, and affirm their genuine desire to work for the wellbeing of students at Flinders. Flinders ES members and friends should be encouraged to participate in and assist with any activities in Oasis as their conscience gives them freedom to do so.

The relationship between ES and Oasis has not been without difficulties through the fifty years of us operating on campus, and it is important to acknowledge that this relationship has been strained at times, especially as the transition was made from a mainly Christian chaplaincy based ‘Religious Centre’ to a multi-faith and inter-faith ‘Oasis’. It is important also for us to acknowledge and be repentant of those things done and said by representatives of ES that have not reflected the love and grace of Christ. While we cannot take responsibility for the way in which others may perceive or interpret our actions, the love of Christ constrains us to make every effort to not merely speak the truth, but to speak it in love.

It is also important to remain firm on the commitment we have to our convictions as evangelicals – a commitment to the absolute truth of the Gospel, the uniqueness of Christ, the authority of the Bible, and the call to proclaim Jesus at university. Compromising on these would not only lead us to be disobedient to Christ, but would also annul our reason for existing as a club. The testimony of history is that Christian student groups who have assumed, lost, or denied the Gospel have eventually lost traction and finally ceased to exist, as they have nothing to offer to people that the world is not already claiming to give.

This means that we need to be always carefully and prayerfully thinking through what it means for us to be operating in the environment of a secular institution, a pluralistic culture, and an inter-faith setting such as Oasis. This is a similar issue to that wrestled with by the Israelites as they lived in exile in Babylon: They were called by God to remain distinctly seperate as His holy people, yet at the same time told to ‘…seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare. (Jeremiah 29:7).

There is no simple formula to apply when working out our relationship with the university and with Oasis. We walk the tightrope somewhere between the compromise of full-blown partnership and the ‘bunker mentality’ of full separation, and we need the wisdom of God to guide us as we seek to navigate between these unhelpful extremes. ‘If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.’ (Romans 12:18) is a verse that we must apply to everyone, not just to Christians or those who may provide some benefit to us. This principle is motivated not by pragmatism, but by sincere love (Romans 12:9). Because of God’s grace, we can be confident that He will enable us to practice this sincere love towards our friends in Oasis in such a way that we will not compromise the Gospel or our mission, to the glory of God.

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revelationI recently ran a workshop exploring worldviews. We began by discussing and defining our worldview as Christians, being careful do describe it in a way that is distinctly and uniquely Christian. Later, we explored the Islamic worldview, based on information gleaned from Muslim websites, chats with Muslims, and verses from the Quran that were quoted by Muslims to support their views.

Each worldview is broken down into eight key areas, based on James Sire’s worldview questions in his book ‘The Universe Next Door’.

Have a read.

You will see that, while there are some areas of connection between Christianity and Islam, in reality they are worlds apart. Any notion that they are essentially the same at heart is ignorant at best and deception at worst. Nevertheless, the few points of connection should be seen as open doors – opportunities to engage with our Muslim friends and neighbours to begin a conversation that can lead to speaking the Gospel.

A good way to start such conversations is to ask lots of questions – genuine questions. Actually be interested to know who they are, what they believe, and what they value. In other words, love them. This post is by no means an exhaustive summary of Muslim beliefs, and just as in Christendom, there will be a diversity of beliefs and emphases depending on the background of the Muslim person you are speaking to. So take the time to learn and appreciate and understand and respect, instead of going straight for the jugular. The Muslim worldview, way above many others, provides great opportunities for us to talk about things that really matter.


The Christian Worldview

What is the foundation of all reality?

God, who is Triune: One God eternally existing in in three persons, united in Love. God is personal, relational and very close to all people, and He wants people to be in relationship with Himself. Love is at the heart of His character, and all He does is in love.

Truth: Can it be known – and if so, how?

We can know the truth. It is a gift from God; revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, not dependant upon our ability or intelligence. The full, final revelation of the truth of God is found in Jesus, who is the way, the truth and the life.

What is the nature of the world?

The physical world was created by God, and is under His authority. It was made good and with purpose, but is now flawed, being under the curse of sin; and it is awaiting renewal that will take place when Jesus returns. God values creation so much that He was willing to enter into it in the person of Jesus.

Anthropology: What is a human being?

We are made In God’s image: designed to be sons of God, to rule and care for creation, and to be part of God’s plan for the whole universe. Ultimately we exist for God’s glory. True humanity is exemplified in Jesus, however we are is sinful, needing salvation.

The human story: What’s the point?

God is overseeing and controlling human history, ensuring that it fulfils His purposes. All that God is doing in human history is with the aim that people will come to know Him. History will culminate in every nation acknowledging Jesus Christ as Lord.

Mortality: What happens after death?

Human beings die once, after which they will face judgement. At this judgement they will either be condemned or vindicated, depending on their relationship to Jesus Christ. After death all people will continue to exist forever, either in the loving presence of God or separated from His favour.

Morality: How do we know how we should live?

God reveals what is good and evil through His commands, which are recoded in ‘hard copy’ in the Bible. All humans have a conscience, which is flawed by sin, but for those in Christ the conscience is renewed through the work of the Holy Spirit. Jesus shows us true and right human living.

Convictions: What personal, life-orienting core commitments flow from all this?

Knowing all this gives us the conviction to live in a right way, in the power of God’s grace, with a desire to honour and love God and love our neighbour. What drives us is the sure hope that we have in God’s promises about our future, and the call to proclaim the Gospel in the whole world. Jesus Christ is at the centre of everything, and our supreme goal is to glorify Him.


The Islamic Worldview

What is the foundation of all reality?

Allah, the Creator and sustainer of all. Allah cannot be associated or connected with anything human or created.  

1 Say, “He is Allah, the One. 2Allah, the Absolute. 3 He begets not, nor was He begotten 4And there is nothing comparable to Him.” (Al-Ikhlaas (Sura 112))

Truth: Can it be known – and if so, how?

Only by revelation from Allah. Ultimate truth is in the Quran, given through Mohammed.

51It is not for any human that Allah should speak to him, except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger to reveal by His permission whatever He wills. He is All-High, All-Wise. 52 We thus inspired you spiritually, by Our command. You did not know what the Scripture is, nor what faith is, but We made it a light, with which We guide whomever We will of Our servants. You surely guide to a straight path. (ash-Shura (Sura 42))

What is the nature of the world?

Created by Allah. We cannot know the reason for creation, but must glorify Allah for it. There are seven ‘heavens’ (containing paradise) and seven ‘earths’ (containing hell). Above all is Allah’s throne.

189 To Allah belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. Allah has power over all things. 190 In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, are signs for people of understanding.191 Those who remember Allah while standing, and sitting, and on their sides; and they reflect upon the creation of the heavens and the earth: “Our Lord, You did not create this in vain, glory to You, so protect us from the punishment of the Fire.” (Ali ‘Imran (Sura 3))

Anthropology: What is a human being?

A creature made to worship Allah. Born morally neutral, life is a ‘probation.’

56 I did not create the jinn and the humans except to worship Me. 57 I need no livelihood from them, nor do I need them to feed Me. (adh-Dhariyat (Sura 51))

2 He who created death and life-to test you-as to which of you is better in conduct. He is the Almighty, the Forgiving. (al-Mulk (Sura 67))

The human story: What’s the point?

For all to come to a knowledge of and submission (salaam) to Allah, in an islamic society governed by sharia law. The course of history is determined by humanity, under Allah’s guidance. History will culminate in the day of judgement.

47Every community has a messenger. When their messenger has come, judgment will be passed between them with fairness, and they will not be wronged. 48And they say, “When will this promise be fulfilled, if you are truthful?” 49Say, “I have no power to harm or benefit myself, except as Allah wills. To every nation is an appointed time. Then, when their time arrives, they can neither postpone it by one hour, nor advance it. (Yunus (Sura 10))

Mortality: What happens after death?

Every human being will be judged based on their balance of good works and bad works.

26 Say, “God gives you life, then He makes you die; then He gathers you for the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. But most people do not know.”  27 To God belongs the kingship of the heavens and the earth. On the Day when the Hour takes place, on that Day the falsifiers will lose. 28 You will see every community on its knees; every community will be called to its Book: “Today you are being repaid for what you used to do. 29 This Book of Ours speaks about you in truth. We have been transcribing what you have been doing.” 30 As for those who believed and did righteous deeds, their Lord will admit them into His mercy. That is the clear triumph. (al-Jathiya (Sura 45))

Morality: How do we know how we should live?

God’s perfect law is revealed in the Quran, supplemented by the Hadith (recorded sayings and actions of Muhammed)

176 That is because Allah has revealed the Book in truth; and those who differ about the Book are in deep discord.177 Righteousness does not consist of turning your faces towards the East and the West. But righteous is he who believes in Allah, and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets. Who gives money, though dear, to near relatives, and orphans, and the needy, and the homeless, and the beggars, and for the freeing of slaves; those who perform the prayers, and pay the obligatory charity, and fulfill their promise when they promise, and patiently persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and in the time of conflict. These are the sincere; these are the pious. (al-Baqarah (Sura 2))

Convictions: What personal, life-orienting core commitments flow from all this?

  1. Belief in Allah as the one true God.
  2. Belief in angels as the instruments of God’s will.
  3. Belief in the four inspired books:  Torah, Psalms, Gospel, and Quran, of which the Quran is the final and most complete.
  4. Belief in the twenty-eight prophets of Allah, of whom Muhammad is the last.
  5. Belief in a final day of judgment.

The 5 pillars (Key moral obligations)

  1. Confession: There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.
  2. Prayer: 5 times/day, facing Mecca
  3. Ramadan
  4. Almsgiving
  5. Pilgrimage to Mecca
  6. (Jihad – holy war – literally, or against sin and weakness)

The following conversation actually happened on social media. It was the final part of a comment thread sparked by a third person posting a video in which a 12-year-old girl defends the pro-life position.

Some details have been changed to protect the guilty and remove some unrelated comments, although I suppose one might easily guess that ‘White Christian Male’ is yours truly. It happened some time ago, so it’s extremely unlikely it may ever be found by searching said social media site in any attempt to identify the other participants.

I openly admit that I am white, Christian and male, and that this may well (in fact probably does (in fact most certainly does)) shape my opinion and make me biased – but then who is not biased towards something?

I invite your comments –  not to add to the argument, nor to agree or disagree with me or my antagonist – but to suggest what may be helpful or unhelpful about either person’s approach; is there any hope that a White Christian Male and an angry Gender Studies Student might one day be able to talk, and even be friends?

(Anything in italics are comments added by me for clarification. Profanities have been converted to symbols)


Gender Studies Student I’ve said it a million times before and I’ll say it again – no uterus no opinion!

White Christian Male So are you saying men should have no say in this whole issue? Isn’t that gender discrimination?

Gender Studies Student Hahahahahahahaaahaha yeh, right. I am not even going to try to argue with you because you are so far brain-washed that nothing will get you out of that hole.

Men can have opinions but it is not their bodies therefore they have no say as to what goes on. (and they’re not children, they are fetuses or zygotes, ugh!)

Hahaha so child is consequence for sex. Hahahahah. She only blames the mother for sex – what about ~the father~ hahah f&#! She says the side effects of abortion [referring to the pro-life youtube video]- but she forgets to include the side effects of pregnancy:

[An 830 word long list of possible complications and side effects of pregnancy followed]

So in case that wasn’t clear: pregnancy is always life threatening and never merely an “inconvenience”.

White Christian Male Wow, that would have to be the longest ‘comment’ I have ever seen on a fb post. _______, you are obviously passionate about your position, and dare I say ‘brainwashed’ by the feminist and ‘pro-choice’ agenda, both relatively recent phenomena, as opposed to a worldview that had been held and tried and tested for at least 4 millenia by billions of people, and which – it may surprise you – provided the foundation for freedom of speech and the emancipation of women which enabled the pro-choice movement to happen. However the fundamental difference between us in this issue is how we view the unborn child. I say unequivocally that they are human beings, and science supports this conclusion.

The use of the words zygote and fetus has been employed to serve the abortion agenda; you might just as well say ‘you are not human, you are an adult’

I feel sad that you express such revulsion against one of the most magnificent and beautiful aspects of life on earth – reproduction.

Gender Studies Student hahahah yeah mate. sure. i could argue forever about this but seeing as I f&#!ing can’t stand religion or white dude bros who think they know more about women, their bodies and the feminist movement than women and a woman who is doing her honours in gender studies. The fundamental difference between your movement and the pro choice movement is that you force women to not be able to get abortions whereas the pro choice movement believes that there should be a choice.

Well I do love the starting process of reproduction (however nothing gets ‘reproduced’ :P) but I am probably hurting your Christian ears yes?

White Christian Male no. Not even my white dude bro ears. Sex is a great gift from God, and was intended for pleasure.

I am not aware of my movement ‘forcing’ women to not get abortions, any more than Christians ‘forced’ people to not have slaves in England in the 19th century…

Might I suggest that the feminist movement would be better advanced by reasonable, respectful discussion, rather than angry taunts and profanity? I don’t think many men will be won to the cause otherwise.

Gender Studies Student Please don’t tone police me – it doesn’t help your argument or hinder mine. Besides, there would be no change if the oppressed stayed polite and silent – they would simply be ignored. All progress has come from noise! Whether it be violence (revolution style) or protests. I will not pander to your feelings and I will not be polite when you, and people from your movement make misogynistic statements that aim to oppress women.

You don’t care about women or the feminist movement – you just want us to be silent.

White Christian Male Not my feelings. Hurt them all you want. Just suggesting a more civil discussion.

Who is ‘you’ – me, or men in general? If I wanted women to be silent, I would not be commenting on ________’s post, nor asking you to have a civl discussion with me.

Gender Studies Student You and other people that have the opinion of quietening women (or other oppressed groups) in order to continue their privilege.

White Christian Male I never said that women should be quieted. And what privilege?

Gender Studies Student
Male privilege – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org

Male privilege refers to the social theory which argues that men have unearned social, economic, and political advantages or rights that are granted to them solely on the basis of their sex, and which are usually denied to women. A man’s access to these benefits may also depend on other characteristics such as race, sexual orientation and social class…

(At this point the original poster interrupted as asked that the discussion be continued in a another more appropriate forum)

Last week at Flinders Uni was Islam Awareness Week. I thought it would be appropriate to be aware of Islam (more that I am normally) by seeking to reflect on what is being communicated by our Muslim friends, and to give some responses and some questions from a Christian perspective. This third post is a repost from May 8, 2014.

Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

This is something that Muslims and Christians must categorically agree about, otherwise both are being untrue to their own faith:

‘They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary”, while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah – Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.’ (The Quran, Surah 5:72-73)

While the Quran here gives an inaccurate representation of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, it nevertheless refers to Christians who claim Jesus is divine, a member of the trinity. The orthodox Muslim view is that Christians will end up in Hell unless they repent and confess ‘Allah is One and has no Son’.

‘Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.’ (1 John 2:22-23 ESV)
‘The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.’ (John 3:35-36 ESV)

The orthodox Christian view is that Muslims remain under God’s wrath unless they repent and confess Jesus as the Son of God.

From a Christian perspective, Muslims are not like the Athenians of Acts 17:23 who had an altar to an ‘unknown god’. Islam states categorically who Allah is and what He is like; it does not feign ignorance or an openness to being enlightened as to who this unknown God is whom they worship. Likewise, Christians can and should say very clearly that our God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the only true and living God. Muslims do not worship, acknowledge or pray to this God, but rather to a god of Mohammed’s own devising. To affirm in any way to a  Muslim that there is an affinity between our God and theirs is to add to their deception.

So don’t come at me with any of that nonsense about us worshipping the same God, just in different ways. Not only does it dishonour God, but it also dishonours your Muslim friend.

This is something that Muslims and Christians must categorically agree about, otherwise both are being untrue to their own faith:

‘They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary”, while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah – Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the third of three.” And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.’ (The Quran, Surah 5:72-73)

While the Quran here gives an inaccurate representation of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, it nevertheless refers to Christians who claim Jesus is divine, a member of the trinity. The orthodox Muslim view is that Christians will end up in Hell unless they repent and confess ‘Allah is One and has no Son’.

‘Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.’ (1 John 2:22-23 ESV)
‘The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.’ (John 3:35-36 ESV)

The orthodox Christian view is that Muslims remain under God’s wrath unless they repent and confess Jesus as the Son of God.

From a Christian perspective, Muslims are not like the Athenians of Acts 17:23 who had an altar to an ‘unknown god’. Islam states categorically who Allah is and what He is like; it does not feign ignorance or an openness to being enlightened as to who this unknown God is whom they worship. Likewise, Christians can and should say very clearly that our God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the only true and living God. Muslims do not worship, acknowledge or pray to this God, but rather to a god of Mohammed’s own devising. To affirm in any way to a  Muslim that there is an affinity between our God and theirs is to add to their deception.

So don’t come at me with any of that nonsense about us worshipping the same God, just in different ways. Not only does it dishonour God, but it also dishonours your Muslim friend.

BTAL Cover

I wrote this booklet in response to the work God is doing at Flinders Uni through the ES group. This year (2013) we have, by His grace, seen a number of people come to faith in Jesus. It suddenly occurred to me that we (staffworkers and students leaders) are not readily prepared to disciple new believers in the context of ES.

Maybe we have not had enough confidence in the Gospel as God’s power to save?

I know the cover is not much to look at, but the booklet packs a punch – not because of my mediocre writing skills, because it is primarily pointing people to the Scriptures, so that the Word of God will speak for Himself.

The booklet can be downloaded for free via iTunes (iBook format – you will need to have iBooks installed on your iPad or Mac): Beginning the Authentic Life iBook

Or the PDF: Beginning the Authentic Life Ebook

I am still working on the Kindle version.

This resource may be downloaded and used freely, provided you do not change, remove or add to any of the content, you do not charge for it (except if you need to cover the cost of printing/photocopying), and you use it solely for the glory of God and the enrichment of His people. If you come across any typos or errors, please let me know.

If you would like to make a donation toward further development and publishing of this booklet, feel free to email me.

In 2012 I spoke at a conference on the theme, ‘The Word of God’.

Maybe because of our language and thinking for many of us this is synonymous with ‘The Bible’. However it is a phrase that is much, much richer than simply a volume of text. It means, ‘When God speaks He acts, and… God acts by speaking’ (Tim Meadowcroft).

The four talks are available as audio downloads below, along with the PDF here.

Talk One: God of the Word

Talk Two: Another God, another Word

Talk Three: The Word Who is God

Talk Four: Of God, the Word